New Life LIVE: July 21, 2026

New Life: Welcome to the New Life Live podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: So much we can talk about today on New Life Live, and we're going to be here for two hours. So start calling in. 1-800-229-3000 is the number. My name is Brian Perez. I'm here today with clinical psychologist Dr. Jill Hubbard. How are you, Jill?
Jill Hubbard: Good, Brian. Hi.
Brian Perez: Great to have you here. Licensed marriage and family therapist JJ West is joining us as well. What's new, JJ?
JJ West: It's been interesting because, Brian, you sent me an article earlier today about this hockey player, former NHL player Claude Lemieux, who was a legend in the NHL. He had committed suicide several months ago. Tragically, more of the story is coming out. His son Brandon is sharing more of the story. One of the pieces of information that's come out recently is the fact that he had struggled with sexual addiction for a while and had relapsed. He was sharing how things were not right in the home. The way that Claude was interacting with people, he was being more and more irritable and short with people. Finally, his wife confronted him and he confessed to having relapsed. She asked him to leave. Ultimately, he decided to take his life. It got me thinking about a story that I shared on a recent podcast episode that I think is really relevant to what we're talking about here. The story comes from John Chapter 8. At the very beginning of John Chapter 8, there's a story of the woman who's caught in the act of adultery. The Pharisees bring her to Jesus. It's interesting because at the start of the story, they tell Jesus this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. They throw her down in front of Jesus in the temple. Where's the guy? They don't bring him. He's not around. It's just her, which is interesting. What is she feeling in this moment? She's been caught in her sin. There's no escape. There's no hiding. We can't explain it away. She's been caught in her sin, very much the way I think Claude must have felt. Caught in our sin, we feel embarrassed. We might feel afraid of the consequences. We certainly feel a sense of shame. What do we expect the response to be? From others, condemnation, but also from God. I think our expectation is that God is going to be towering over us, ready to strike us with the lightning bolt because we stepped out of line. What we see in the story is very different. After they've tried to catch Jesus, they throw her down and they say the law says that we should stone her to death. What do you say? They trapped him. Jesus bends down. We don't know what he starts writing in the dirt or drawing in the dirt. We don't really know what's happening there, but notice his posture. He's not towering over her or her accusers. He's kneeling. He says to them, "Okay, any of you who is without sin, cast the first stone." They all walk away, oldest to youngest. They walk away because all of them were aware of their sinfulness. Then he says to the woman, "Where are your accusers? They're not here." He says, "Neither do I condemn you, but go and sin no more." He starts with this posture of acceptance, of empathy, of love, and then invites us into a life of freedom. If that's what you're longing for, if you're feeling caught and hopeless and alone, call in because we have hope for you.
Jill Hubbard: I love how he saw her but didn't shame her. That's what we so often fear. I am so sad for Claude and his family.
Brian Perez: A story that just broke about an hour ago. We're leading with it because it's something that we deal with all the time, not just addiction, but specifically sex addiction. If you need help, give us a call. We're going to be here for two hours at 1-800-229-3000. Nancy, you are next.
New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: Brian Perez here with Dr. Jill Hubbard and JJ West. We're talking about the story that just broke about NHL legend Claude Lemieux. He committed suicide a few months ago and now his son Brandon came out to say the reason for it was because his dad had fallen back into addiction. When they were interviewing the son Brandon, they asked him what kind of addiction, alcohol or whatever? He said, "No, actually it was sex addiction." He had been sober for about a decade. Like JJ said at the beginning, there were all these signs. He was just being erratic and everything else. His wife confronted him. He said, "Yeah, that's what's going on." She kicked him out and then this happened. Tragic.
JJ West: It's not uncommon for that to happen. It is not uncommon for those of us who deal with addiction, especially if there's been sobriety and then a relapse, to feel like all is lost. Whether it's the day of discovery or the day of disclosure, we feel like there's no hope for any kind of recovery. There's no hope for life after this. There's no hope for healing. There's no hope for forgiveness. We feel so trapped and alone that many people do take really drastic measures like Mr. Lemieux did, rather than actually seeing that there could be change and healing.
Jill Hubbard: Shame and pride are so closely linked. When we are in the depths of our shame, to get out of that, we flip into pride. Sometimes I'm amazed at what people are willing to do instead of admit and get help.
JJ West: We go to all kinds of great lengths. We try to buy our way out. We try to reason our way out. We run away and start a new life with a new family somewhere as a way to escape our shame rather than facing it, recognizing that Christ died for our sin to set us free, and then invites us into this new life of freedom.
Brian Perez: The thing about sex addiction too is when it comes to drug addiction or alcohol addiction, people see those as bad because if you get behind the wheel under the influence, you can hurt yourself and other innocent people. When it comes to sex addiction, people are just like, "I can handle this. It's just something I do. It's just me. No one's getting hurt." But the shame that it leads to, like in this case here, is significant.
Jill Hubbard: I think it's almost more shameful though, less acceptable than drug and alcohol addiction. Wouldn't you say so, JJ?
JJ West: I definitely agree with that. All the time you'll be at church or in some kind of setting like that and someone will get up and talk about their addiction to alcohol or their addiction to drugs. We're all clapping like, "Look how God has set them free." The guy gets up with, "I'm a recovering sex addict," and everyone's like, "Ooh, pervert." People think those kinds of things. Tragically, it does happen that that's the response from some people. That's why there are things like the Every Man's Battle Intensive. It's a place where someone who is hurting, someone who feels hopeless, someone who is so filled with shame that they want to run and hide and even take their life, finds a safe place where they're loved, where they're encouraged, and where they're taught how to now live a new life. It starts with that uncoupling ourselves from that shame that keeps us stuck in the cycle. By the way, Brian, I will say this: that phrase that you just said, "I've got this," is the three-word phrase of every addict. If you hear yourself ever saying, "Oh, I've got this," with whatever problematic habit or behavior you're dealing with, you're probably an addict. You might need to give us a call.
Jill Hubbard: One more thing about the sex addiction. One of the things they learn is that it's really not about sex.
JJ West: Exactly. It's very rarely about sex. A lot of guys will come in thinking, "Oh, I just have this really strong sex drive and that's why I'm looking at pornography or going to the strip club or having the affairs," because they think they have this really strong sex drive. What we talk about at the workshop is that there are these primary drivers behind the sexual acting out that they weren't even aware of, but that they are trying to compensate or mitigate for these shame messages of powerlessness, of insignificance, and of incompetence. The acting out serves as that offset. When I feel incompetent at work because I get the nasty gram from the boss saying, "I don't know why we hired you, that presentation was garbage, I'm not sure that we should keep you anymore," and then two hours later I'm online looking at pornography, when I'm in my fantasy, I'm completely competent. I'm not fumbling around. I don't know what to do. No, I'm completely competent. So it offsets that feeling of incompetence, that shame message.
Brian Perez: Guys, if this is your story, you can call in and talk about it with us today at 1-800-229-3000. Or, better yet, in addition to calling, sign up for the Every Man's Battle Intensive. It is happening the weekend of August 7th in Dallas, Texas. There's still time for you to sign up. In fact, if you sign up by this Friday, you'll get a discount. Go to newlife.com to find out more information or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE.
JJ West: Can I just say, there are scholarships available. Please, do not let cost be the factor. You get the early bird discount by signing up by this Friday, but if you're sitting there going, "I just don't know how I can swing it," call 1-800-NEW-LIFE because there are scholarships set aside specifically for the Every Man's Battle Intensive. We don't ever want cost to be the reason why someone doesn't come.
Brian Perez: Very good reminder. Thank you, JJ. We often tell you guys that staying equipped and encouraged is essential when you're caring for others. One opportunity this fall is the Hope Together conference in the Dallas area. There are three days of biblically-based training and practical tools for counselors, coaches, pastors, and lay leaders. You can learn more about the conference at hopetogether.com. As a New Life listener or viewer, you have a special discount available when you register. Use the code NLM20. Early bird pricing for that ends on July 31st, so don't wait. Our very own Becky Brown is going to be one of the speakers there. 1-800-229-3000 is our number. Let's go to the phones now. Nancy in Dallas, Texas, listening to us on the New Life app. Hi there, Nancy. Thank you so much for calling in today.
Nancy: Thank you guys so much. I am so glad this show exists so there is help available when you need it. I am calling because I would like advice on how I should respond being on the receiving end of a Step 9 amends call. For a little background, it kind of came out of the blue. My husband's ex-wife, they've been divorced 28 years, texted him and said that she's in recovery for overeating. She's working on Step 9 and would like to make an amends call. She lives in another state and would like to have a Zoom with each of us separately. We have this scheduled for next Tuesday night and I just don't know what to expect or how I should respond.
Brian Perez: When you're talking about Step 9 and making amends, you're talking about a 12-step recovery program?
Nancy: She said she's in recovery. My understanding is that she's working the 12 steps and is now up to the point of wanting to reach out and make amends.
JJ West: The fact that you guys are willing to take the call shows a heart of compassion, so I appreciate that you're willing to do that. Step 9 says that we sought to make amends with those that we had harmed by our acting-out behavior unless doing so would cause further harm. If it was the case where having interaction with her would cause further harm, then you're okay to say no to that. It sounds like you guys are open to this and you're willing to participate in this call. What I hope will happen, what I would expect, is that this will be an opportunity for her to own her behavior. She should not be defensive. She should not blame shift or somehow indicate that you guys share some of the blame. It should be a matter of, "Here's what I did. Here's how it harmed you. And here's what I have done or am doing to try to repair what my behavior broke." That's what I hope the call is going to be like. That's what it should be like. I would go over that with her ahead of time so that we would avoid that defensiveness or minimizing or blame-shifting. You really don't have much of a role in terms of the call. You don't have to respond in any way. There's no script that you have to follow. If you feel led to offer some verbal forgiveness, you certainly can, but you're not required to. All that's required of you is simply to listen. You don't have to agree with what she's saying. You don't have to be her counselor. You don't have to make it okay for her. All you're required to do if you participate is simply to listen to her sharing her perspective of what she did that caused harm to you or to your husband.
Nancy: How does the call kind of wind down? Do you just say at the end, "I realize it's taken courage for you to reach out. I appreciate that and wish you well on your recovery journey"?
Jill Hubbard: That would be a very nice thing to say, Nancy. Just to thank her. If you want to summarize what you heard, that's fine, but it's not necessary to go into a lot of detail. I am curious, Nancy, because you're saying she wants to make amends to your husband, her ex-husband, and also you, and that she wants to do it separately. Have you had an ongoing relationship with her? Were there kids involved?
Nancy: Yes, there was a child. My husband and I married when their child was in kindergarten. Up until age 18, there was lots of interaction. She was pretty terrible in a lot of ways. But then once he turned 18, she was out of our life and we saw her 10 years later when he got married at age 28. Everything was okay. We even shared an Uber ride back from the wedding with her and her husband. It was okay. We just figured we'll never really hear from her again, but here she is.
Jill Hubbard: So how are you feeling about the fact that she wants to do this?
Nancy: Weird. People don't always apologize for their terribleness. I'm a bit curious too about what she's going to take ownership of.
Jill Hubbard: I think JJ spelled it out really well. It really is a more passive role for you. It's just being willing to hear her and let her share what she has prepared to share.
Brian Perez: I love what Nancy said too because she's already looking forward to the end of that call. God can do amazing things. 1-800-229-3000.
New Life: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: All right, so we've got so much going on here at New Life. That's why you've got to sign up for the New Life Newsletter. It comes out once a month to your email. You can do that at newlife.com. We already talked about Every Man's Battle and also the Hope Together conference. Intimacy in Marriage is coming up before you know it. If the real issue in your marriage isn't the argument itself, it's what's happening beneath the argument. At the Intimacy in Marriage workshop, we help couples reconnect, heal, and grow closer spiritually, emotionally, and physically. You'll learn the comfort circle and other practical tools to help restore intimacy in your relationship. There's still time to join JJ West and Laura Mangin McDonald this weekend in Washington, D.C. You can get all the details and register at newlife.com. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to reach JJ and Jill today in the studio. We've got Mary standing by. She's in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi there, Mary. How can we help you today?
Mary: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a 30-year veteran of the show. I want to thank you both. Jill and JJ, you were on when I called about two years ago. Then about six months later, my now 26-year-old son became an alcoholic and ended up losing his very young marriage over it. The divorce was final in October and he continued to drink. The way that I knew he was drinking was I'm a mom and he wouldn't call or text us. I just knew in my mother's heart that it was continuing. It came to a head in January. He began to have withdrawal. He tried to stop on his own and got really scared because he had a lot of physical symptoms. Long story short, we drove there, went to the hospital with him. The doctor spoke very sternly to him and said, "Your health is not good and you're very young and you need to stop." It scared him and he went straight to AA. He's five months sober now. I think the difference now is he's really doing well. He sounds like himself. He's very proud of the work he's done and continues to do. He still goes to meetings at least three times a week, meets with his sponsor. I'm just really proud of him. What's happened is I already have PTSD from my childhood. I've been in therapy for a long time and I do pretty well. But when something very serious happens, I feel like I have PTSD all over again. I cannot relax. My husband's like, "Gosh, this is great, he's doing so well," but every time I don't hear from him for like four days, I just go into this panic mode. If there's anything you can help me with.
Jill Hubbard: Mary, thank you for calling back and for updating us. Certainly, this is good news where your son is at. I love what you're sharing because I don't think it's talked about enough that as a mom, going through something traumatic with even an adult child does cause symptoms of PTSD. You have it compounded because of your childhood issues. So it's perfectly understandable that you would start to panic, but it's terribly uncomfortable. That is where your nervous system has not caught up with the fact of where he's at. Five months is wonderful, but it's still really new. It takes a good year or more for them to fully become themselves again. I love that he finally has owned it and it sounds like he's doing this for himself. All of those are really good things. I think it's perfectly okay, and depending on the relationship with your son, do you feel like you have a good relationship with him?
Mary: Yes. Of course, it was rocky during the two years he was drinking, but we have a really good relationship. One thing I will say too that just warmed my heart, I had to do a lot of obedience to God because as we drove the two hours to see him in the hospital, I was ticked off. I'm like, "This has to stop." But God gave me a check in my spirit and when I got there, I just smiled. I hugged him. This was not my own strength. We ended up kind of laughing about a couple things and he told me that he told the AA group when he first got there that first of all he was scared, but second of all he said, "My mom didn't judge me." And I felt like I could do this. That was amazing.
JJ West: Mary, it's important that you recognize there's always a delay between the progress that the addict in recovery is making and what shows up in the lives of those they harmed. There's a delay because we can't see inside their mind. Inside his mind he's going, "Man, I'm making progress, I'm making good choices, I feel so much better," but on the outside it looks a lot like the old person. There's a delay that happens. It'll catch up, but it's going to take some time. Give yourself the grace to let yourself catch up to this new reality. Just like Jill was saying, it's also going to take some time for him to show that on a consistent basis.
Jill Hubbard: Both of you are in your own journeys. It does take time for you to catch up to where he's at. Your insides are going off because avoidance, not hearing from him, that meant something different very recently. I think at times it's okay to say, in as little of an anxiety way as you can, to let him know that you guys are recovering also from what he's gone through. As a mom, when you don't hear from him, it scares you. You're not trying to put that on him, but you just need him to know that checking in is something that helps you as well if he's open to that.
Mary: He does, but then it'll be a few days, which he has a right. He's an adult. I never worried about him before ever as an adult. Is there another way of thinking so that I don't go to that place where, "Oh no, he's drinking again"? I just can't keep doing that.
Jill Hubbard: Remind yourself that it's his journey and that he is an adult. You can't do his life for him. Taking your anxiety other places: you and your husband, an Al-Anon group, a support group, and talking about it with other moms can be helpful as a way to process it. You don't have to just be needing that constant reassurance from him that everything is okay. You have to do a lot of your own self-talk. This is feeling familiar, but it may not have the same meaning.
JJ West: Al-Anon would be a wonderful resource if you haven't already explored that because you'll be with other people who understand what it feels like to love an addict and what it feels like to be triggered by their just normal behavior. You can't control the trigger. I want to be very clear. You can't control the trigger. What you can learn to do is to control your response to the trigger. Don't beat yourself up that you have that immediate knee-jerk, "Oh gosh, what's happening, I haven't heard from him for four days, I wonder if..." Once that hits, then enlist the help of your husband, trusted friends, certainly God. Help me to not go down the path of this must mean there's tragedy, but instead to say, "God, I trust that you have him."
Jill Hubbard: Handing him over, Mary, in those moments, picturing yourself handing him over to Jesus. You're wanting to control the situation because it feels uncomfortable and you can't, but God can.
Brian Perez: Mary, thank you for your phone call today to New Life Live. 1-800-229-3000. Thank you all for watching and listening today. I'd like to invite you to financially support us. We thank you for your prayers too, because they sustain us for sure. Your finances are what keep us doing these radio broadcasts and other webinars that we put together, the recovery community, counseling groups, everything else. We invite you to become a monthly donor. 99 for the 1 partners is the name of the group that we have here. You can find out more about it at newlife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE or text NLM to 28950. Many people feel like the one that's too broken, too addicted, or too far gone for help. Through what we do here, we show them that there is another way. Your generosity is truly making a difference. 1-800-229-3000 is the number to call us here on the show today. Suzanne, we're going to talk to you after we go to James in Dallas, Texas. Welcome.
James: Good afternoon and God bless you for the work you do. I listen to you all frequently as I travel up and down the highway in my job. I'm 62 years old. At 9 years old, I was sexually molested by my father's best friend's oldest son. During that time I never realized the impact that it had, that it was having. But today as I look back after going through some counseling and after being saved, it was me more trying to prove and try to find my identity. Sports was my identity. That was what was going to make me a man. The confusion between what had occurred and the relationships between my male friends and female friends, I didn't understand just how damaged that was. Then I lost my baseball scholarship, ended up enlisting in the Marine Corps thinking being a Marine would satisfy that curiosity and cementing that feeling of being a man. That didn't work. It was just a lot of emptiness. Drug addiction, sexual addiction, addiction to pornography, everything that you all have listed throughout your show, I've checked off those boxes. One of the things that I've learned is our Lord and Savior doesn't check off those boxes. Once we went into counseling, my wife stood beside me. She knew that I was unfaithful, knew that I had issues and problems. I don't know how many times she prayed for me, but we just celebrated 36 years, it'll be 37 this coming February. We went through counseling when I turned 50. We made sure that it was Christian-based. A 98-year-old retired Catholic minister served us in such a way that opened up my eyes. I always believed in God but I never felt I was worthy because of the choices that I had made. Once I had a heart attack and heat stroke in 2023, I found myself in the emergency room. It was on the emergency room bed that I surrendered verbally to the Lord. All the time that I spent in the bars, all of the time that I spent drinking or online, I substituted that with my studies. I was baptized several months later after going through some pretty serious discipleship from a fellow employee that I actually requested he baptize me after that time because he had played such a mentorship role in explaining that God, when he writes your name in the book of life, he doesn't remember all the mistakes that you've made as long as you show that outward change to others that they can see the work that Jesus does within you. For all of those that are struggling, it does take a submission. I just wanted to share that, if there were any questions how I could help, but the work that you all do and the people that listen to you all for that, it's never too late. Our Father is always there with open arms welcoming us and he doesn't judge us. He forgives us. That was the moment that all of the things of the past went away. Today I serve in my church very actively. I give this testimony to all different age groups. I became a certified crisis counselor to help some of those youth that are really going through some struggling times because I've kind of walked that walk and been down that path. I just wanted to share that.
Jill Hubbard: Wow, James. That is an incredible story. My heart goes out to the little nine-year-old you and that nobody saw what was going on or intervened in a way. For all your years of heartache and shame, I'm just amazed at how God has used it and how God put that. God doesn't waste anything.
JJ West: Both the Old and New Testament tell us that God uses all things for our good. In the story of Joseph, at the end of his life, he says to his brothers, "You intended this for evil, but God intended it for good for the saving of many lives." I think that's exactly what your life represents, James. The enemy intended to harm you, to destroy you, but God has used it for good to save you and to save others. Thank you for your surrender.
Brian Perez: James, maybe you can start a life recovery group there in the Dallas area. Thanks so much for calling in today. Suzanne in Los Angeles, you are up next here on New Life Live. Suzanne, what's up?
Suzanne: Well, last week I called and had a question for Jill and JJ, and I wanted to give them a follow-up. My question was about whether my daughter should be undressing in front of my eight-year-old grandson. I shared what you had to say. I actually had both my daughters listen to the recording because both of them have eight-year-old little boys. They both said that was great. Just a couple days ago, my daughter texted me and she said her son asked, "Have you and Mimi decided if I'm supposed to see you naked or not?" She said because it's part of my job as a parent to teach you how to protect your body and how to respect other people's bodies, we're going to practice that at home now. His response was, "Okay." I just thought I'd let you know that your advice was taken. Now she's going to be changing the way she does things, and my other daughter as well.
Jill Hubbard: That's wonderful, Suzanne. I'm just kind of laughing here, chuckling about the eight-year-old and his response. He really needed some clarity here on what I'm supposed to do. He was aware this was going on.
Brian Perez: By the way, she gave such a great answer to really make it about, "Hey, this is not, oh, it's shameful to be naked in front of you," but really to be, "We're teaching boundaries, we're teaching what it looks like to have good, safe, healthy boundaries with others, and so we're modeling that at home." Really good job.
Jill Hubbard: "We're going to protect our bodies." That's wonderful.
Suzanne: You guys are so great and I just love the show and get so much good advice. That's why I'm a 99 for the 1 partner. I just want to see this spread even further.
Brian Perez: Thank you, Suzanne. Great endorsement there. God bless you. Thank you for calling in. Maybe you have a follow-up. Maybe you've called us before and you have a story to share. We would love to hear from you because we're going to be here for another hour. 1-800-229-3000 is our number.
Jill Hubbard: I love that she called in. She heard what we offered, she shared it, had them listen, and they received it. What a great family. They were open and willing and not defensive. I love that.
JJ West: By the way, what a great model for all of us in the audience. When you're in a situation where you don't quite know what to say or how to answer, you hear something on the program that you think could be helpful for someone, sit down and listen to it together. Let them and then talk about it together. It's not something that you have to try and memorize and then regurgitate later. That's the wonderful thing about having it on the app and on YouTube and all these different places is that there's a way to now replicate the message even further. I just love that whole story.
Brian Perez: 1-800-229-3000. Just a few weeks ago, JJ West held a webinar titled Identity in Christ: What the Bible Says. All of our webinars include a 30-minute question and answer time for participants at the end. There were still questions we couldn't get to, so I think we'll close out with one of those questions right now. Somebody wrote in and said, "How can I work from and not for my identity in Christ when I work in sales? I am constantly being judged by my performance." JJ, what would you say to this person?
JJ West: It's challenging whenever you have a job that has responsibilities. You've got responsibilities. You have to do the things that are required of you in order to keep that job and in order to advance in that job. The difference is whether I draw my identity from my job or whether I am fulfilling the responsibilities of my job. When you're in sales, certainly there can be that evaluative thing where everyone's numbers are on the big board and you're either at the top, the bottom, or somewhere in between. There's no hiding that. You can start to go, "Oh, other people will be impressed with me if I am moving up the board." So that's the goal. That's what I need to do. We can start to even believe that God's impressed with me if I keep moving up the board. We might not think it's because I'm moving up the board in terms of sales, but we might go, "Oh, I'm moving up the board in terms of holiness, purity, sanctification." That's simply not the way God views us. My identity is in the work that Christ has already done. My value, my worth, who I am is not based in what I do. But I do still have responsibilities and I do that because I'm a child of God, because it brings honor and glory to God for me to fulfill the responsibilities that I have, whether I'm in sales, whether I'm a counselor, whether I'm on a radio show.
Jill Hubbard: We are supposed to work hard. We're to work as unto the Lord. We're supposed to work hard, we're supposed to try to be successful. It's just that when you base your worth on something external like that, then your worth goes up and down. Especially in sales, I can see how I made a good sale, "Oh, I'm great," I made a bad sale or I didn't make a sale and now I'm in the dumps. That's no way to live. We need something solid that's never changing, and that's where Christ comes in.
Brian Perez: I think sometimes in the workplace we, whether it's sales or not, what happens is we have examples of this from 2000 years ago in the Bible. It was Paul who had to put in the word that especially if you have a Christian employer, make sure that you're working hard. I don't know what it is sometimes when you work in a Christian ministry or your boss is a Christian, where people think, "Oh, I can kind of slack off, they're cool, they're my brother, they're my sister." Aren't I supposed to just expect grace if I don't work so hard? Not so much.
Jill Hubbard: As Christians, we should have higher standards in a lot of ways. A lot of times Christians, the very stereotype you're talking about, they see Christian organizations as less than. No, God calls us to do our very best. I think that is part of having integrity and not riding on God's coat-tails.
JJ West: We're supposed to be set apart. We're supposed to stand out. So yes, we should be doing everything as unto the Lord, whether that is my sales job or whether I'm a doctor or mechanic or whatever.
Brian Perez: All right guys, keep calling. God bless. Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to newlife.com to find out more information. Thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing and we're so glad that you're here.