New Life LIVE: September 25, 2026

Guest (Male): Welcome to the New Life Live Podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: Hey, welcome to New Life Live. I'm your host, Brian Perez. Welcome to the show. I'm here today with licensed professional clinical counselor Becky Brown, who's also the president of New Life Ministries, and Dr. Jackie McHarris, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist. Good to be on with you two ladies. Jackie, what's on your mind to start us off?
Dr. Jackie McHarris: Well, Brian, I have been thinking about being understood. Sometimes we confuse understanding with agreement. I see this in couples and families and even in friendships and often in our churches. Someone says, "You just don't understand me," or you're having a conversation and it's like, "You don't get it," and it starts to get heated. Sometimes what that really means is you don't agree with me. Because someone doesn't agree, we kind of get into this argument. It's two very different things to agree or to understand. I can understand that you're hurt and not agree with how you're handling it. I can understand that you're hurt and not agree with everything that you did because you were hurt. I can understand that you're angry and not believe everything that you said in your anger. Just because I understand doesn't make it okay to behave badly. I can understand how you arrive at a particular conclusion and not arrive at that same conclusion. I think one of the greatest gifts we can give another person is curiosity before correction. Rather than be furious, be curious. James tells us to be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry. Yet when someone we love says something we disagree with, many of us stop listening because we're getting ready for our response. What would happen if instead we said, "Help me understand how you got there," not, "Let me tell you what's wrong" or "Let me tell you why you're wrong." Understanding doesn't require agreement. It does require me to make enough room in this conversation for your experience to exist alongside mine. Too often we're not able to do that. I find that most of the time when people are arguing, it's because they are trying to get the other person to agree with them rather than trying to understand where the other person is coming from. We can have two things be true at the same time. My experience and your experience can both be valid. Sometimes a little bit of room is where the healing begins. Just make room to come alongside a person and try to understand what they're saying and where they're coming from.
Brian Perez: And definitely don't throw in an "I told you so" or "I knew this was going to happen. Why didn't you listen?"
Dr. Jackie McHarris: "You never listen." People will say, "You're not listening, you're not listening." I am listening; I just don't agree with what you're saying. I see it differently. Me seeing it differently doesn't make you bad and it doesn't make me bad. It just means we have two different brains. In my brain and in my experience and in my worldview, this is how it is. Yours is different. Tell me about that. Help me to understand you. Help me to understand where you're coming from.
Becky Brown: And we can become so much better even when we don't agree, Jackie, because it is the dialogue, the conversation. We're going to learn something that we didn't even consider before. We may not land on "Okay, we're all going to do the same thing." I don't know that that's ever going to happen until Jesus comes back, but we can keep trying.
Brian Perez: So much wisdom from these two ladies. It is such a blessing to be on the show with them today. You're going to be blessed watching and listening to New Life Live. I'm Brian Perez, and we've got Cindy and Michelle standing by. We're going to get to your calls in just a moment. Thank you so much for watching and listening, for supporting us financially, and for telling your friends about us because there are so many hurting people out there. We want to help as many as we can, and we want to equip you as well to give them some good advice every now and then. We'll be back. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: Let us go to Michelle and then Cindy, you'll be up next. Michelle listens to us on Sirius XM Channel 131 in Charleston, West Virginia. Hi there, Michelle. Thanks for calling in today.
Michelle: Hi. Thank you. Those words in the beginning were very good for me to hear about the relationships and how you disagree or do agree. I think that has a lot to do with my situation. I lost my son almost nine years ago to an overdose. My granddaughter is now 19, so she was 10 at the time of her dad's passing. Prior to that, I wasn't able to see my grandchildren for two years because they were separated. My son went to rehab. There were a lot of things going on. Even over the years, my daughter-in-law and I, whom I love like a daughter, had different times where we had problems because I believe she was jealous of my son's and my relationship. We were very close. He did lose his battle after two inpatient rehabs and some outpatient rehabs. I wasn't one of those parents that kicked my son out of the house when he lived with me. I couldn't do that. I felt like if I did that, he would be dead before he even actually died. He was holding down a job, working every day, paying child support. He couldn't see his children. After he passed in 2017, I was able to have a relationship with my grandchildren. At first, it was really hard because I was so depressed. I just wanted to die every day. That went on for a while. Anyway, I did start spending some time with them and it was hard, but I did. My granddaughter and I, when she was little, we were so close. We had a day at the mall every week where she'd model a new outfit and then she'd change and go back to model it for the sales people. She wanted to spend a lot of time with me. I believe she's heard a lot of bad things that weren't true. I'm not saying about her dad, as I know she went through a really hard time. They all did, and I felt for them. But I believe she's been told a lot about me. Over the last few years, we've had intermittent episodes where she just didn't want a relationship with me or she couldn't have a relationship with me. I understand that she's hurt, but I believe I'm being blamed for what she went through.
Becky Brown: Michelle, you've said a couple of times about your beliefs. This goes back to what you were just saying, Jackie. What's happened is there's such a loss within the family that these beliefs are not life-giving to you or to the relationships. I could give you all the explanations about how the granddaughter's now in a different time in her life and things do change in relationships, but your heart is broken. I can hear it in your tears.
Michelle: It is very broken. My sister talked to her last week because she won't answer my texts, she won't answer my phone calls. She told my sister that she needs me to be a grandmother and not an advocate for my son. I understand that. I really do understand that.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: When you say you understand that, tell me what that means.
Michelle: I understand she's angry. I understand she's so angry with him.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: No. When she says, "I need you to be a grandmother and not an advocate for your son," what do those words mean practically? How would you do that?
Michelle: She told me before that she didn't want to talk about him, so I haven't talked about him with her in over a year. The only thing I did do recently was on National Overdose Awareness Day, I made a post about how much I missed him on Facebook and I posted some photos. I don't know if she's talking about that. I really don't know.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: Have you asked her if that's what she's talking about?
Michelle: I've tried, but I can't get her to answer me.
Becky Brown: Michelle, what have you done to address your grief? I can hear it; it is right there. Losing a child is one of the worst things to go through. You've survived 10 years, which is good. I've worked with parents who have lost children. My own parents buried my brother. It is a journey that is just really hard. I hear the pain, but what have you done in order to find some help? Have you sought counseling or group work?
Michelle: I have a therapist. I've been in therapy since she was three years old. I was diagnosed as being bipolar at the time. I'm medicated. I thought like recently that I was probably in the best place as far as like a lashing out because I would do that to my family. I finally got to a point where I wasn't doing that anymore. But the depression is still bad.
Becky Brown: Here's what I want for you, Michelle. I want to shift your thoughts from them right now to your own self-care. You are in a world of pain. If you haven't seen your counselor recently, or even if you have a psychiatrist that's working with your medicine, we have to stay current with all of those kind of things. When we have big crises, this is a crisis for you. I hear it. Losing connection with her feels like losing your son again.
Michelle: Most days I thought I just wanted to go. I pray for it every day. I pray for God to take me.
Becky Brown: But God's not done. He's not done, Michelle. You have a purpose to be here. When you feel better, you can speak into the lives of your granddaughter, your daughter-in-law. This is so important for you to hear. Grief is a lot, and you have others that need your presence.
Michelle: Yes. And I have a grandson as well. I have three more grandchildren, but she has a brother. I know I need to spend more time with him and do things with him, but I'm just so heartbroken.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: I agree with Becky about your own work, your own counseling, and maybe even finding a grief group. We have Life Recovery Groups. Getting involved in a grief group where you can continue to process your hurt is vital. I imagine that being with your grandchildren without your son just brings him back up. They feel that. That might make it hard to be in relationship with them. They may also have a sense of they aren't what you're there for; you're there for your son. You can't do anything about what other people think, but you can heal yourself. Continue to do your work. It's been 10 years and that probably seems like no time at all. It's just so raw and present. Your healing is a necessary component in changing the relationship with your grandkids. Focus on how devastating this loss is for you.
Becky Brown: The hardest part about grief is that it's unique, and so there's not a cookie-cutter response. I love the fact that, Michelle, you're aware enough that you've done some work. This is a really hard place. When we get in hard places, we need more help. Sometimes we think we can only go to the counselor when the appointment is scheduled for two weeks from now. What I want you to do is I want you to connect with your counselor as soon as you get off the phone with us. Talk to them about how this feels like a crisis for you. I know in our practices, we have those moments with clients that life is too much and we need to offer extra support. Michelle, I think this is one of those days for you.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: Sometimes you need to meet with your counselor twice a week instead of once a week. If you've been seeing them for 16 years, it is probably at that maintenance stage, and so you might need to step it up and lock in and really get back to focusing on this grief. As you're doing your work on that, my hope is that as the time passes, your granddaughter is able to hear from you and receive your calls. I would keep trying. I would weekly send out a text, "Hey, just thinking about you. Would love to chat. Let me know when you're up for it." I would just keep putting out that branch.
Becky Brown: What Jackie said is so powerful. They know the desperation of the grief, and they may feel this obligation. That's not Michelle's intent, but that's the heaviness. What I've said to so many people who are going through grief: the person who has passed doesn't want you to get rid of your life because they lost theirs. We want you to be able to find the way to thrive, to go on. That way, we don't lose two people with one death or more. A lot of times grief just will implode a family. We don't want that. God's got a plan for you, Michelle. We'll be praying for you. Call your counselor today.
Brian Perez: Yes, but first we want to send you a couple of tip sheets. If you can stay on the phone, Michelle, they are called "10 Tips for Healthy Grieving" and "12 Steps to Recovery from Grief." We'll put that information in our show notes too, in case anybody watching or listening could benefit from these tip sheets. Just give us a call at 1-800-NEW-LIFE. We've also got the Life Recovery Workbook for Grief available in the NewLife.com store. We can also help you find a grief group there in your area. You're in Charleston, West Virginia. You can also meet online, but stay on the phone. Thanks so much for calling in today and know that everyone here at New Life is praying for you, as is everybody watching and listening. For over 30 years, Covenant Hills has helped men and women find lasting freedom from addiction through Christ-centered, clinically excellent care. With gender-specific programs, they offer residential treatment, day treatment, and ongoing support that heals the whole person: body, mind, and spirit. If you or someone you love is struggling, call Covenant Hills. Their phone number is 1-800-NO-ABUSE, or you can visit the Covenant Hills website: covhills.com. Let's take another call. Here is Cindy in Fort Worth, Texas, listening on KWRD. Welcome to New Life Live, Cindy.
Cindy: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Don't be afraid to shut me down because I'll tend to ramble. My basic question is: I'm 67, I've had lifelong anxiety. I don't have panic attacks, but I think I manage it pretty well. I kind of know what my triggers are. I have a daughter; she married an Australian guy. She's been over in Australia for 20 years, so we're always back and forth, see each other once a year. We're pretty close, but she's turning 40 and I'm going at the end of October for her 40th birthday. She's going to have a big party. This will actually be my first of her birthdays in 20 years to spend together. I'm excited about that. Well, her best friend from Oklahoma is also going. She wants to show her friend a good time. She wants to show me a good time. Part of her plan is to take us on a nine-hour drive to where the in-laws' boat is harbored, go out on the water for like three days and do all the water stuff, then come back a nine-hour drive back to her house. Then I get on a plane and have that long trip back home. I told her I didn't want to do it and I would just stay at her house and let them take the friend out because I've already done a lot of the water activities with them in all these other years. I don't have to be entertained.
Brian Perez: Cindy, we do have to take a break. This isn't us shutting you down, by the way. This is just that we have to take a break because we're looking at the clock. Stay on the phone and we'll continue our conversation with you and take a lot more questions when we return here on New Life Live. Thanks so much for watching and listening today and for praying for the people who call into the show and share what's going on in their lives. To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit NewLife.com. Now back to New Life Live.
Brian Perez: Let's go back to Cindy in Fort Worth, Texas, who says she doesn't want to take that nine-hour car ride to play in the water. She's just like, "I don't need to be entertained." You still with us, Cindy?
Cindy: Yes. When I told my daughter I didn't want to do it, she got mad and said I need to get out of my comfort zone. I'm like, I've been out of my comfort zone a lot, going back and forth to Australia and all the things I've done. She wants to show me the good life that she's living and she wants to show her friend that. But I'm already thinking, number one, it's a long flight over there. Plus I just got off of a big cruise and a flight to California. Then I'm fixing to make this long flight to Australia. How long is the flight to Australia? It's about, depending on which way you go, like 16 and a half hours, 17.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: So you're looking at a 17-hour flight there, and then how many days would you plan to be there?
Cindy: Two and a half weeks. I'm also in the middle of having a house built, so I didn't want to go for too long because I've got all this stuff going on. I know like I can't overdo myself because then my anxiety will really get stirred up. I'm already worried about the nine-hour drive. Her husband, whom I love, is a great guy, but he'll want to get up at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, which I don't want to do. They'll be on that long trip. The only way I can do a long drive like that is listen to an audiobook or these talk shows, sermons. I can't listen to music. Music gets on my nerves; it makes my anxiety worse. They'll want to listen to music the whole entire nine-hour drive. Then I'm worried about things like are they going to stop when I'm comfortable, when I want to go to the bathroom or something like that. It's already a month away and I'm already worried about these things. Then I'm going to be trapped on the boat.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: Cindy, I'm with you. Did you ask, "Can I just stay at the house while you guys go?" and she said no to that?
Cindy: She said I need to get out of my comfort zone. She knows about my anxiety, and she's got anxiety too. It's her birthday and she wants what she wants. She goes, "Well, why are you even coming?" I said, "Well, I'm coming for your birthday. I want to help you set up for the party and be there for your party. That's all I'm coming for. I'm not coming to go out on a luxury boat."
Dr. Jackie McHarris: Is it possible for you to leave after the party and be gone when they go on the boat?
Cindy: I already got my ticket; it's already bought. Part of the sale price was you had to stay a certain length of time. Anyway, I just wonder, should I stand my ground and just say I will stay at their house and take care of the dog?
Becky Brown: Cindy, I think if you do what you just said—and I wouldn't say "stand your ground," don't make this a fight—yes, she wants you to do what she wants you to do. You can respond with, "I understand that you want me to go, and I feel better at home. This may be my comfort zone, but I'm making the 16-hour trip because I want to celebrate your birthday. I want you guys to have a great time and I'll watch the dog." Just neutralize it. I wouldn't get into a back-and-forth even if she says something like, "Why are you even coming?" You already answered that. "I'm coming because I love you. I want to celebrate your birthday. This is part of our routine." It could be that it was just a big reaction from her. I don't think all of the worry about "should I go" is going to help you. The sooner you can get this resolved, the better everybody's going to feel.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: I would just continue to say, after the 16-hour flight there and knowing I've got a 16-hour flight of sitting going back, I really don't want 18 hours of being in the car in the midst of that. "I'm going to stay here and watch the dog. I expect you all to go and have a fabulous time. Don't worry about me. This is what I want." I am out of my comfort zone. This isn't necessarily just about comfort. That travel is hard on the body and she's not having to do that on this round. That's 32 hours of flight and 18 hours of car travel, not to mention all the other car travel that you'll be doing. I would just kind of stick with it and just gently continually remind her, "I love you, but I'm not here for the road trip."
Becky Brown: It's going to be okay. Cindy, just keep telling yourself, "I'm not trying to fight. I'm going to be there to celebrate the birthday, enjoy being with you, and enjoy the travel." Try to keep it light. Keep your tone light even when hers is maybe pushing a little bit. "It's going to be fine. You guys are going to go and have a great time. I'll be here with the dog. I love you."
Brian Perez: Just tell her you grew up watching *Gilligan's Island* and you're afraid of what those three-hour boat trips turn into. No, Cindy, never mind. Don't say that. We have a tip sheet we can send you called "How to Set Healthy Boundaries." We'll put the information in our show notes. If you're watching us online, you can order it by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Cindy, stay on the phone and we'll send you a copy of that tip sheet too. Really quick question: where do you draw the line? As Christians, as believers, we want to be people of our word. We say that we're going to commit to something, but then there comes that time when we might have to pull out and say, "I shouldn't have signed up for this. I shouldn't have taken on that extra whatever."
Dr. Jackie McHarris: I have to admit, I am not good at that. I have learned to not have my plate so full that things are falling off of it. But like Cindy, if I say I'm going to do something, I really need to do it once I've made that commitment. I then feel horrible because I didn't follow through. But I have learned that there are times when that is just the case. As an emotional avoider, I wasn't very good about being in my own feelings, being in my own emotions, and now I am. I don't love it. I do not like the way that it feels when I disappoint someone and I say I'm going to do something and I don't do it. I had that happen last week. I did not make it some place I said that I was going to be, and I have felt horrible ever since. I don't like the way it feels, but also I couldn't be there. Two things can be true at the same time. I couldn't be there and I feel horrible about it. I think we sometimes have to learn how to sit in our feelings. Feelings are going to pass. It isn't the end of the world. It hasn't been the end of the relationship. It's just there's disappointment and I don't like the way it feels to disappoint people. But I have grown to be able to acknowledge the feeling and not just shove the feeling away or disassociate from it or check out from it. In the past, I wouldn't have even recognized that I couldn't do the thing because I would have been so avoidant and disconnected from what was going on inside my own body.
Becky Brown: I always have thoughts. But I have a pretty good "no." I can say no. I can also change my mind and feel okay with it because I know that I am a dependable person. This isn't like it just happens. I don't want to disappoint anybody either, but I find that if I am able to say clearly where I'm coming from and know that they're going to be disappointed, but know that I can't help the disappointment, I can't control how you're feeling because I have to do something different. I also know that it doesn't reflect on me as a person. That's not because I woke up yesterday and figured that out. It's taken me a while. I've learned so much in understanding our attachment styles between the avoider, who doesn't always have language to say the "no" or to process the feelings, or the pleaser, who doesn't really have a "no" because it depends on the other person being okay with whatever I'm doing or not doing for me to be okay. Secure attachment is where we have to continue to lean into to look and explore. We have all kinds of opportunities as long as we're in relationship with people.
Brian Perez: That's right. One thing Becky has said yes to is the Hope Together conference, which begins October 1st in Allen, Texas. She would love you to be there as well. You can get more details about it at hopetogether.com. Here's a promo code: it'll let you save 20% on registration. NLM20 is that code. You can find out all about this three-day event on their website, hopetogether.com. We'll be back on New Life Live. Every day, we hear from people all over the world who are looking for hope. They've been lost in a relationship struggle, addiction, anxiety, depression—all kinds of ways. Wouldn't you love to be part of a rescue team? Don't miss your opportunity to be part of something that changes lives every single day because every one matters. Your generosity helps find them. We've seen God work in the lives of so many people over the years here at New Life, and we want to invite you to be part of what God is doing. 99 for the One is our partner program that you can give to the ministry on a monthly basis to make sure that we continue to reach out to the lost. Call 1-800-NEW-LIFE, 1-800-639-5433, or NewLife.com/99for1. Join the mission. Rescue the one and restore the many.
Brian Perez: So thankful for all the people that we have helped this week here on New Life Live, like Linda, Mike, Bill, Michelle. We just spoke with Cindy a little bit ago. It's all made possible because of the financial gifts of the people who support this ministry, right Becky?
Becky Brown: I don't know how to explain that. People think because we're Christian that it would be free. It doesn't work that way at all. Your gifts make a difference in the lives of everyone who is hearing us right now. Because of technology, we are heard worldwide. We are heard many different times of the day and night because of the different ways that they can hear the program. Here's just one example. Beth writes: "I was in an abusive relationship similar to what a woman who had called New Life Live went through and what she talked about. I had so many counselors along the way, and God healed me. That's where I was at the time in my life, and now I'm free because of who God says I am. I was listening in the car that day and it just made me cry happy tears." So not only is it inspiring people to take a next step in their life, but it's also encouraging when we hear the rest of that story. When you give to New Life, you are making it possible for people to hear the program, which would then inform them of next steps that they can take for their transformation. We want to be part of that.
Brian Perez: You can give today at NewLife.com or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. They can also text NLM as in New Life Ministries to 28950. You can also find out about becoming a 99 for the One partner. That's our monthly giving program. You can go to NewLife.com/99for1. We want to send you a welcome gift if you can become a 99 for the One partner. It includes a magnet, a sticker, and a 14-ounce mug with a coaster that goes on top or on the bottom if you want to set it on your table. You can get the details about that at NewLife.com/99for1. At NewLife.com/radio, you can find out how to send your questions to us. We love it when you can call in, but we know that you can't always do that, so we've set up a couple of other ways that you can get your question to us. Here is one that was submitted to us from Lisa in Dyersburg, Tennessee. She watches us on YouTube and she asks: "How do I get my husband's attention to see that our marriage is in trouble? I've been married for 26 years and serving God for two years. My husband was raised in church but doesn't go with me. He's very passive-aggressive and avoidant. I am extremely overfunctioning and a fearful avoider. I've been working internally on myself for two years. I've begged for marriage counseling. His insurance covers it; mine does not. I've given him information and I'm finally learning that I can lead a horse to water, but I cannot make him drink. These days I'm not even leading the horse. I'm tired of chasing my husband and I'm just not doing it anymore. He's becoming more dysregulated as a result, but nothing changes in him because nothing changes. My biggest issue at this moment is the 40-plus hours per week that he spends on his phone. I know it's not porn or cheating; it's just mindless scrolling. Between work, his phone, and sleep, that's 136 hours out of 168. There's no intimacy of any kind. No sex for three years. I'm tired of waving the big red 'we're in trouble here' flag, only to have him ignore it until I get quiet so he can pretend things are fine. I'm a baby's hair away from done here." Jackie, what do you say to Lisa?
Dr. Jackie McHarris: Lisa, we need you to come to Intimacy and Marriage with your husband desperately. Unfortunately, from what she's saying, he's probably going to resist that. But that is the answer. He needs to hear some things from some other people so that he can wake up and start doing the work to restore his marriage. If she is not in therapy, I would recommend that she get into therapy so that she can be doing her work because even if the marriage ends, she still has continued work to do. I love that she's now walking with the Lord and has that support as well. Letting us help her find a Christian counselor to come alongside, I think, is a good next step. But absolutely, if they could come to Intimacy and Marriage, I think that would be the answer for them.
Brian Perez: The next Intimacy and Marriage begins tomorrow in Dallas, Texas. You can find out more about it at NewLife.com. Becky, what would you add for Lisa?
Becky Brown: I love what you just said, Jackie. It takes two. Lisa, I'm so grateful that you now have a walk with the Lord, but being mad at your husband probably isn't a good witness. Some of the things that we talk about at Intimacy and Marriage—we talk about the comfort circle. If you've listened to us long enough, you've heard us talk about it. It is a scripted conversation. I would think that your husband is a little bit nervous, if not a lot a bit nervous, to have a really deep conversation because you guys haven't done this for 26 years. Now when you talk about not having physical intimacy because he's on the phone or that he's always at work, there is a disruption that's happened. Of course, without knowing if you have children or all of those kind of details, the main thing is that you both need to have some tutorial about having a real conversation. If you're chasing him, he's going to retreat more. I would take advantage of his insurance, let us connect you with a therapist and begin the process. I'll see you there tomorrow. It could be the thing that just makes the difference in your marriage and in your life and in your family. I know I'm overselling it, but I have seen God work in couples in so many ways. One particular testimony I always remember is a couple said, "We had the first real conversation of our marriage." It's because we get into habits and 26 years is a long time to have the same conversation and now it's changing and he's going, "What is happening? What was wrong with what we did for 23 years?" I hope that you'll listen to us, Lisa, and that we'll see you there and it'll make a difference. Imagine having deeper conversations in your marriage than just "How was your day?" "Oh, okay." It can be so much better. It really can.
Brian Perez: Lisa's been married for 26 years, only serving God for two years. We don't know the entire story, but we're wondering if when people start serving the Lord, sometimes their priorities change or they want to do things differently, they want to start going to church more. Yet the first 24 years of their marriage was—they might have had shared interests that no longer interest Lisa. How do couples navigate that?
Becky Brown: The same thing is true whenever there's an addiction in the relationship. That didn't start—some of it may have started in the beginning, they didn't realize it. In a couple's life, any disruption or any change—every action has an equal and opposite reaction. In couples, that is very true.
Dr. Jackie McHarris: I wonder what was filling up the time before. I don't have information about children, but just in my imagination, I imagine that they were married and they had children and so for 24 years the children kind of were consuming everything and then children go their own ways, go to college, move out, and now we're left with us. Just the two of us. Now we've got to find our way back to each other. If there were no children and it was 26 years of her fighting for attention and focus from him and then finding Jesus and taking a step back and not wanting to be that nuisance or nag, now she's feeling lonely. Hopefully, they'll come to Intimacy and Marriage and get the help.
Brian Perez: You can also get the book *How We Love*. It's available in the NewLife.com store. Lisa, thank you so much for sending in your question. That's all the time we have on today's episode. We'll talk to you next week here on New Life Live.
Guest (Male): Thanks so much for listening. We hope something you heard will help you live in freedom today. If this content was helpful for you, we would love it if you would take a minute, leave a review, post about it, and rate it. Remember, we have resources and workshops online for you as you continue your journey. Go to NewLife.com to find out more. And thank you for being part of the New Life community. We know that God desires all of us to live a life of wholeness and healing, and we're so glad that you're here.