New Life LIVE: August 28, 2026

Announcer: Welcome to the New Life LIVE podcast. We hope to provide help and hope in your life through God's word, counselors, and psychologists as we answer questions from listeners who call with the challenges of life. Let's go to today's episode.
Brian Perez: Hello and welcome to this edition of New Life LIVE. I'm your host, Brian Perez, joined today by a couple of licensed marriage and family therapists, good guys. We've got Chris Williams here today and JJ West. JJ, what's on your mind to start us off?
JJ West: In honor of the fact that I get to do a show with Chris, which I rarely get to do, it's confession time with JJ. I love it. I'm not the only one. Definitely not. One of my confessions today—we don't have time for all of them, we'll just do one—is that I have a major sweet tooth. I have all kinds of addictions, and some of them are more well-known based on what I do for a living. This other one, this sweet tooth, this real addiction to sugar is not as well-known, but it also is problematic. Recently, I decided it's time. I need to reset my nutrition, my diet, because my current approach is not working. When we do Every Man's Battle, we talk about primary and secondary boundaries. Primary boundaries is the edge of the cliff. That's when I'm giving myself over to whatever my addictive behavior is. If it's sexual addiction, I'm sexually acting out. If it's alcohol, I'm drinking. If it's illicit drugs, I'm using the drug. The primary boundary with a food addiction or a sugar addiction is eating the stuff that's not good for me. But then there are these secondary boundaries that are the fence about 50 to 100 yards back from the edge of the cliff. The fence is there as a warning to help me not run headlong off the cliff. I can climb over the fence and go to the cliff and fall off or jump off, but the fence is there as a secondary boundary to help me be aware of the degree of danger that I am in. For instance, right now, I have a whole bunch of secondary boundaries in place in terms of what is allowed in the house food-wise and what's not. I have to, when I leave the house, take with me certain types of foods. I have to have it in my bag so that I'm maintaining those secondary boundaries that help me avoid crossing a primary boundary. We all need help. We all have things in our life, habits, even if they're not at an addictive level, we all have habits that are unhealthy for us. The question then is, what are the secondary boundaries that I need to set up, those fences that I need to set up that help me avoid falling off the cliff? For some of us, that's going to be simple things like paying attention to what I bring home from the grocery store. For some of us, that's going to be things like I'm not going to drive through that section of town or get on the internet after everyone's gone to sleep. For some of us, it's going to be things like I'm not going to allow myself to respond to that email or take that call when I'm not in a good mental place to do so. Every one of us has a different set of boundaries that we need, but we all need them.
Chris Williams: Absolutely. There's so much wisdom in that. There is much more to talk about around all of that, but removing the temptation as far away from us as possible and getting very honest with that takes a lot of work. JJ, as you're saying that, there's more work that I need to do with my phone and social media and creating more separation and distancing myself in that area.
Brian Perez: If this is something you're struggling with, we have a webinar coming up in just a few weeks. I'll talk to you about it after we come back from the break. We're also going to talk to Tess. Thanks so much for watching and listening today. We'll be right back.
Announcer: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Now, back to New Life LIVE.
Brian Perez: If you have found yourself trapped in unhealthy patterns or you're struggling to break free from addiction, whether it's substance abuse, pornography, compulsive behaviors, or other destructive habits, recovery can often feel overwhelming and impossible to navigate alone. Freedom is possible, and lasting change begins with understanding the deeper roots behind addiction. We've got a webinar coming up September 17th at 7:00 PM Central time called From Addiction to Freedom: Biblical and Clinical Help for Lasting Recovery. It's a powerful faith-based online Zoom webinar designed to help you understand addiction, uncover what fuels unhealthy behaviors, and take meaningful steps toward healing and freedom. It's 90 minutes. It includes a 30-minute Q&A session hosted by Becky Brown, the president of New Life Ministries, and presented by Eric Thomas, a trusted clinical expert in addiction and recovery. If you can't join us on September 17th, sign up for it anyway, because after the webinar, you'll get a replay link that's good for about a week so that you can watch it that weekend or whatever the case might be. If you text the word "webinar" to 28950, we will text you back a registration link and a free tip sheet on addiction. You can also sign up on our website, newlife.com, or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Again, this is happening on September 17th. Let's go to the phones now. Here is Tess calling us from Boston listening on newlife.com. Welcome, Tess. How can we help you today?
Tess: Hi. I've been married 34 years. I'm currently separated. He is a covert narcissist that I figured out in 2018. I am calling in to find some biblical application that I can use specifically dealing with my two adult sons that have the narcissistic traits and tendencies.
Brian Perez: How old are the sons?
Tess: Thirty-one and 28. Their youngest brother took his life in his dorm room in 2022. He was 21 years old in the honors program. Thank you.
Chris Williams: Tess, first and foremost, I am so sorry for the loss of your son and the tragedy that you have faced. I just have to go down this narcissistic road in the sense that when we use that word, oftentimes what happens is it becomes a weaponized label to put other people in a category, which oftentimes can fit really well. The danger of that is that we miss the specific behavior that underlies it all. Oftentimes when we're with people like yourself, Tess, that are experiencing narcissistic relational behavior from the people around them, I actually ask them if they can put that term to the side for a moment. Then they can then start addressing specific relational behavior. If there is manipulation, if there is shaming, if there is a lack of empathy, the more that we can call out the specific behavior and be able to also take a look at ourselves as well—am I exhibiting any of this unhealthy behavior?—we can grow in being able to call out the behavior because when we call out the specific behavior, we get specific boundaries around that. It becomes more powerful than just the label itself. I'm not saying you're doing that, but I just want you to be aware of that.
Tess: I'm very aware of that. This was a systematic dismantling of my psyche over 34 years. Yes, I see where I was complicit. That's the most difficult thing to handle. This is not me throwing out labels. The covert is the word, because this was systematic and it's so pervasive that there is so little help out there. Biblically, I know I may have to face leaving the kids that Jesus said.
Chris Williams: What I love about scripture, because it's a much bigger answer than what we have time for here, one of it is the recovery of yourself through this process. The stronger person that they experience, the less the narcissistic behavior works. Being able to let yourself off the hook, but then strengthen those parts of you that you felt were diminished is one thing. One of the many things I absolutely love about scripture is that God is so relational beginning to end. He desires healthy relationship and he doesn't leave it to a mystery. For instance, when we look at the fruit of the spirit—patience, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, self-control—those are all relational attributes. When we look at the great chapter in 1st Corinthians 13, the great love chapter, we see what love is and what love is not. It's not easily angered, it's not self-seeking, it doesn't keep records of wrongs, it isn't rude or dismissive. We start to see these very specific behaviors and very specific internal states that show us what is healthy versus what is unhealthy. I would highly encourage you to pick up the book called Safe People by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It really gets into that nitty-gritty of what are the ingredients, because the more that your sons come up against a strong mom who is both loving and truthful, it forces them to relate to you in a different way.
JJ West: Right along with that, anytime you're dealing with someone who is expressing some kinds of behavioral personality disorders, whether it's narcissism or borderline or whatever, it is vital that you set and maintain clear boundaries. Here is what I'm willing to allow into my world, but here's what I'm not willing to allow into my world. Then you don't negotiate. If you've listened to the program for any length of time, you've probably heard me reference the same story in the gospels where Jesus is talking with the rich young ruler. He says, "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus says, "What does the law say?" They go through that and then he says, "One thing you lack: go and sell all that you have, give it away to the poor, and then come follow me." It says that the rich young ruler walked away sorrowful because he had great wealth, basically insinuating he wasn't willing to part with this. What doesn't happen is Jesus doesn't run down after him and say, "Wait, what about half? How about two-thirds?" He doesn't negotiate with him. He sets the boundary and then he lets the boundary have its effect. If your sons are exhibiting some narcissistic type behaviors, it's going to be very important that you set very clear boundaries with them. Here's what I'm willing to accept, here's what I'm not willing to accept, here's what I'm willing to do and not willing to do. Then I maintain those boundaries. I don't negotiate with them because anytime you have that cluster of personality disorders, they're always going to try and manipulate. As you said, the long-term dismantling of your psyche. If there's no room for negotiation, if you're firm in that, then the narcissist has to find a different way to relate to you. That's important. You want to make sure you're clear on what your boundaries are, communicate them clearly, and then hold to them. Don't be wishy-washy with your boundaries because they'll pick up on that pretty quickly.
Tess: Yes. I'm also someone who's extremely empathetic and I feel others' emotions, so I am learning to deal with that as well. Is that the watchman, someone who feels others' emotions biblically?
Chris Williams: Biblically, we do see many different people of many different dispositions and personalities and processes. What you're experiencing is what's known as a highly sensitive person. Highly sensitive people absorb the world around them more readily and more deeply. This isn't just people. They see colors more brightly, they hear sounds more acutely. It's like their absorption of the world around them. Those internal boundaries become harder to be able to recognize and establish. The other thing is we don't want to look at that sensitivity as a negative thing. It may have some struggles and some liabilities with it, but highly sensitive people, to what you're saying Tess, are people who love deeply and strongly. That's a beautiful thing. Being able to navigate ourselves in that, especially when we've been around dangerous and narcissistic behavior and relationships, recovering the self can take a lot, but that's going to take a lot of acceptance and grace for who you are and how you're designed. I think getting in safe community is really essential for that.
JJ West: Dan Allender and John Eldredge talk about how it's our good heart that often gets us in the most trouble. Your good empathetic heart that loves deeply, oftentimes the narcissist, the borderline, they will prey on those types of people because they think, "Oh, because you love so deeply, I can manipulate you more easily." You want to be careful. Continue to love deeply, continue to feel what you feel, but make sure that you're not letting your feelings control you. You are still allowing God's word in you to control your decisions. That's going to be the key for you is not to dishonor how God made you as this deeply feeling, deeply loving person, but don't let your good heart get you into trouble where you're being manipulated.
Chris Williams: That goes back to that classic verse in Proverbs: "Guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life," where it becomes the heartbeat of the boundaries. A boundary is something that often gets missed: the purpose. The grand purpose of a boundary is to protect that which is valuable. When you can recognize the value of yourself, the value of your heart, the value of your well-being, and own that, then it's easier. Where I find that people who can't connect well to their value or even the values of other people really struggle with boundaries, whether it be setting them, keeping to them, and recognizing them. I live in a downtown area here in Southern California, and we have our doors locked at night. That locked door is a boundary because we believe what's inside is valuable. If we apply that to other areas, if I struggle setting a boundary with people who don't treat me well, well, that is an indication that there's something inside of me I don't value first. The more I value it, the easier it is to set that boundary. One last thing to Tess on this is that as certain behaviors overlap between sons and dad, I would separate those out in the sense that you want to not lump them into the same category. Treat them all individually as individuals struggling with their own set of issues.
Brian Perez: Tess, thank you for calling us today here at New Life LIVE. Get your hands on that book. It's called Safe People. Also, we have an article on our website, newlife.com. It is called Everything You Need to Know About Narcissism. We're going to take a quick break here on New Life LIVE. More of your questions coming up.
Announcer: To find out more information about New Life or to order any of the resources mentioned on today's program, visit newlife.com. Now, back to New Life LIVE.
Brian Perez: You had an argument with your spouse recently and you're just wondering why we keep arguing about these same things. What if it wasn't about the argument, but what's beneath the argument? Many couples get stuck debating who's right and who's wrong, but the deeper need is to feel heard, understood, and valued. At the Intimacy in Marriage workshop, we help couples reconnect, heal, and grow closer spiritually, emotionally, and physically. You'll learn the comfort circle and other practical tools to help restore intimacy in your relationship. Together, you'll explore what may be missing in your relationship and learn how to cultivate a thriving, Christ-centered marriage. The next one begins September 25th in Dallas, Texas. JJ West is going to be there along with Laura Mangin McDonald. JJ, why should people sign up for this today other than the fact that they'll get a discount if they sign up in the next couple of weeks?
JJ West: That alone is reason enough. I would add to it just what you said, which is that so often the fight that we're having isn't really about the content that we're fighting over. It is learned patterns, core patterns of response that we're not aware of. The workshop helps us identify where those patterns come from and how to choose a different path. We also have some really frank talk about sex, about how God designed sex to be in relationship, in marriage, and how the world and our own flesh take it a very different direction. That causes a lot of damage and a lot of broken trust. Learning to repair that broken trust is vital to rebuilding that intimacy in our marriages. It's a fantastic weekend, a fantastic investment in your marriage for the long haul.
Brian Perez: And it's also for engaged couples, right?
JJ West: Yes, it is. If you know a couple who is engaged or about to be engaged, this would be a fantastic gift to offer to them to prepare them for a really successful marriage.
Brian Perez: It may not be on their registry. What's on the registry? The toaster and the microwave. You may have to call an audible on this one. Find out more about Intimacy in Marriage on our website, newlife.com, or by calling 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Chris, did you want to add something?
Chris Williams: Other than that I love it, I would add one thing. In the work that I do, I get to work with a lot of leaders and entrepreneurs and even organizations, and I find over and over and over as I dig a little deeper into people's lives that the condition of your marriage really does determine the condition of your life. If you think that having a disconnected or an unhealthy marriage isn't affecting other parts of your life because you can compartmentalize well, you can't compartmentalize that well. The problem is that you haven't experienced what a healthy marriage can do for you. A healthy marriage can also positively affect every other single area of your life. It's the foundation of that relationship that if you cultivate and invest in that, you're investing in every other part of your life. By the way, if you have children, you're investing unbelievably well into your children by investing in a healthy marriage.
JJ West: Since Chris added one more thing, can I add one more thing? We have a special fund for people in ministry to participate in the workshop. If you're in ministry and you're thinking, "I'm in ministry, I don't make a lot of money, I don't think I can afford it," there's a special fund set up for you to attend. We've designed the Dallas workshop so that we end on Saturday night, so that if you need to be back in the pulpit on Sunday morning, you can be. We are designing this specifically to reach out to those in church ministry.
Chris Williams: And if you need someone to fill the pulpit, Brian is here. You can hire him.
Brian Perez: Wait a minute. Volunteering all kinds of people. That'll be a first, but hey, why not? Again, you can get all the details at newlife.com or call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. The next Intimacy in Marriage begins on the 25th of September in Dallas. If you sign up by the 11th of September, you'll get the early bird discount. Back to the phones we go. Nashville and Gloria. Welcome to New Life LIVE, Gloria.
Gloria: Thank you so much. Probably prayer for my grandson. He's 16, he'll be 17 next month, and all of a sudden he thinks he knows everything. He's angry a lot. I need some advice for an angry almost 17-year-old.
Chris Williams: How does his anger show up?
Gloria: It shows up because him and his dad and my daughter are not together. They haven't been together since he was three or four. When he does go down there, he's been told a lot of stuff and kind of being brainwashed by them over there. There's been a history of animosity with them. My daughter's a minister, so she doesn't want him to go live there until he's 18 next year. Because they're not in church, she was trying to keep him here until he gets 18 because she wants to keep him in the Word and in church.
Chris Williams: Well, we're going to head to a break here pretty soon, but I want to talk about what happens inside of a person when there is a battle for control, especially outside of him. We'll pick up the conversation where we left off in just a couple of minutes.
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Brian Perez: All right, let's go back to Gloria. Chris, right before the break, you had a question.
Chris Williams: Gloria, what it sounds like is that this 16-year-old young man is getting pulled in these different directions. This is an extreme way to put it, but everyone's trying to form this kid into their own image. What happens is that inside of him, he wants to be aligned with his mom and he wants to be aligned with his dad, but that's not possible. He is stuck in the middle of this tug-of-war, and inside of him can be this real built-up frustration. He's also 16, he's going through puberty, those hormones are real, those changes are real. I have a 15-year-old and the struggle is real. In the midst of that, I just want you to be aware that he's trying to navigate this, and a lot of times, especially he's coming into an age where he'll want to say, "I'm not choosing anybody, I'm choosing me," and his anger could be an expression of that.
JJ West: Right along with that, Gloria, one of the things that I want you to really lean into is being a safe person for your grandson. In other words, you're not going to be someone who is, to use Chris's analogy where your grandson is in this tug-of-war where he's the rope, you're not going to be tugging on him. You're not going to be having an agenda: here's what you need to do, here's how you need to be different, here's who you need to choose or who to like or where to live or what to do with your life, but instead that I'm going to lean into being a safe person for my grandson. That doesn't mean that we don't have any opinion on inappropriate behavior. If in his anger he is lashing out in unhealthy ways, of course as a grandmother you can point that out to him. I'm talking about this whole idea of not inviting him or not weighing in on his choices about which path to take, where he's going to live when he turns 18, who is he going to honor more, mom or dad, but simply to be a safe place for him to talk about the pain, the struggle of and how awful it is that I have to choose. How awful it is that mom and dad couldn't get along, couldn't figure out a way to work this out, and so I have to choose whether to be with mom or dad. That's a hard place for any child to be. For you to be the safe person in his world that says, "Listen, buddy, I love you no matter what. I am in your camp no matter what. If you sin in your anger, I'm still for you and I still love you. If you make a choice and the consequence is really bad and now you're suffering from it, I'm still for you. You can always call on me, you can always reach out to me, and I will listen without judgment." That doesn't mean I will agree to or applaud everything you do. We're saying that I will be by your side and I will love you unconditionally so that you become the safe place for him. Even if he hates you right now, part of that is saying, "I will love you even when you hate me. I won't let your hatred, I won't let your anger, I won't let your hurt..." Because remember, anger is a secondary emotion. Anger's not a primary emotion; it's a secondary emotion, which means that it's fueled by a primary emotion. There's something underneath the anger. Oftentimes what's under the anger is fear, sadness or disappointment, grief or shame. To be able to say, "I'm a safe person for you to be angry with" so that instead of trying to cap the anger and not feel it, I let myself sit with the anger long enough to see what's underneath it, what's fueling it. I want to be that safe person for you so even if you tell me that you hate me and want nothing to do with me, never want to see me again, I will still love you and I will still be that person who says you're welcome here. That's the way God loves us.
Brian Perez: We have an article on our website, newlife.com, called Anger: A Signal to Action. Chris, you had mentioned the puberty and the hormones and everything that this 16-year-old is going through.
Chris Williams: In that developing brain, I liken it to spring in Colorado. I grew up in Colorado. My brother and I went up skiing, and it was a beautiful what we call a bluebird day, skies are gorgeous, it was incredible. It was at the beginning of March, but as the afternoon clouds are coming in, the sun was still out. It started to rain up in the high country, which is kind of rare. As it started to get dark, it turned to snow. As we were driving down, there were tornado warnings down in the Denver area and rain coming in, and then by nightfall, it turned into this unbelievable snowstorm. There was like six inches of snow on the ground. Two days later, it's 75 degrees out and the snow is gone. That's a teenager's brain going through puberty. There are so many weather systems colliding all at the same time and the system can shift very, very quickly, much like springtime in Colorado. You just kind of bear through it as you go through it, but part of all of that is being able to help navigate teenagers working through that. That requires us as adults to have our own stuff together. Not that we'll do it perfectly, but why our own emotional and relational stability and health matter tremendously is because we have to weather those storms. If I try to control the weather system, it doesn't work. Good luck trying to control a teenager in the temper tantrum, but we do have to weather it and adjust to the conditions and help them weather it through those changes that they're experiencing. Can I bring up another topic on this? As I've turned 51, I'm just evaluating certain things in my life and I've realized something that I have carried some what I call boyish behavior or boyish energy into my adulthood. This kind of fits in with that category. There's a verse in 1st Corinthians 13: "When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became a man, I gave up childish ways." I'm paying attention to boyish energy in me and there's two primary ways in which I see that, and part of this is I'm seeing a lot of grown men behave badly and grown men carrying a lot of immature behaviors into the world. I'm really concerned about it. Here's two ways, subtle but sneaky and powerful ways that boyish behavior shows up in my life. It shows up in my life where I feel like I have to prove something. Prove-it energy is teenage energy. As a man, I want to move from proving something, because that takes a defensive posture, into a showing energy. The other way I see it, and I think that this is really pertinent to the work that JJ and I do, especially with men, is that troubled energy. If I feel like I'm in trouble, that's a boyish energy. Boys get in trouble and face discipline. Men make decisions and deal with consequences. If you find that those are active in your life, I'd invite you to move into a more mature mannish energy, and that is drawing upon more security, that's drawing upon more certainty, and really at the end of the day, it's taking ownership and responsibility for who we are and how we show up in the world, rooted in God's love and truth.
JJ West: Boy, Chris, you are dead on there. We have a whole session, the pivotal session of the weekend for Every Man's Battle is the session on shame. Shame always, always, always invites me to isolate, to hide. When I feel like I'm in trouble, that boyish energy—somebody found out the truth about me and I'm going to get in trouble, or I did something wrong, I don't want to get in trouble, and so I cover it up, I hide, I don't want this to get out. It would be the worst thing possible if this gets known. That's what keeps guys from ever even coming to the workshop. They're locked, they're imprisoned in this shame that keeps them isolated, and they don't recognize that the very thing that God designed for our healing to bring us from boyish immature energy into mature adult man energy is community. That's it. We can't get there any other way. The workshop is a place where I'm invited by other men who are talking about their own brokenness, not from a place of shame, but from a place of conviction that invites me into an honest look at myself that leads me to healing. Give you an example. When I was a kid, when I was a teenager, I was 15 years old. I had my learner's permit. I had two older sisters, and my oldest sister was already out of the house. I had one older sister still living at home who was not very responsible. When mom and dad would go out for an evening, they would leave me in charge responsible, so they would leave me with the key to the car if there was an emergency. I decided I was big enough I could drive the car with my learner's permit down the dirt roads from our house to the convenience store to get a snack. I had done this a couple of times. The second or third time that I did it, I got back to the house and saw the parents' vehicle in the driveway. Mortified. I thought about just keeping driving. I considered that, but instead I walked in the door, I put the keys on the table, and I walked back to my room and balled because my image had been shaken. Notice what I didn't do. I didn't connect, I didn't talk to mom or dad, I went and I hid in my shame. Lovingly, my mom came and talked to me. She came to the room, she let me cry it out for about 30 or 45 minutes, and then came back and talked to me. But that's what shame does. Shame tells me I must hide my awful self from the world around me because if the truth about me got out, of course they would reject me. Conviction, on the other hand, invites me into relationship, redemptive relationship that brings me into healing, but it's scary to be that known. I can't be loved if I'm not known. If I keep hiding myself, I can't be loved because I will always have in the back of my head, "If you knew the truth about me, you wouldn't love me, you wouldn't feel this way about me."
Chris Williams: A shame trap there, too, because I think you said it so well there is that it creates this world in which we need to be perceived. We protect our perception, our image, and what we get in the end is the best thing that we can get is admiration. This is a huge trap that I see a lot of people fall into. I want to be perceived and admired. I'm telling you right now, the place where you're perceived and admired is not the place where you're known and loved. Those are two completely different experiences. Being perceived and admired is really a cheap imitative drug for the real thing of being known and loved. I can't say it enough about Every Man's Battle because that is an experience where you get to walk through in a safe, contained, very well-created and curated space to get that actual experience. You start to see the shame start to melt away, the walls start to break down, and something amazing starting to emerge. It's a doorway. Now, living in that place is going to require a lot of work and a lot of time after you leave the weekend, but getting through that doorway that that weekend offers you is absolutely incredible.
JJ West: There's a choice there. When I became a man, I put childish things behind me. I love that verbiage there because there's an active choice that I'm making as a man, as an adult, to put away childish things. I'm recognizing that it's not through a series of choices that I make that leads me into maturity.
Chris Williams: And it's progressive. Now we see through a mirror dimly, but we'll see face to face. Now I know in part, then I shall fully know, as I'm fully known. It's talking about intimacy here, and not just sexual, talking about being known, and that's how we move into this mature, full, holistic place.
Brian Perez: The world says boys will be boys, the Bible says put those childish things away. We can help you guys sign up for Every Man's Battle. Sign up by today and you'll get an early bird discount. Find out more about it at newlife.com. Have a great weekend. God bless.
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